Discussion on Angel of the Lord-A post form Carm

The following post was in reply to the post 'Body of Moses' which is on my blog from a Trinitarian named James and my reply to him to dispel the confusion of 'Angel of the Yahuah' which trins say was the Eternal Son of Alahim begotten before the foundation of the world which is biblically untrue. While Messiah existed as 'that Logos' (John 1:1) there was no Son until Bethlehem. The angelic mediation stood as a guarding of the pattern. Here is the post. The one in quote is James and below is my response in blue

Ok messenger let me explain how you just dug yourself in a hole and you will not be able to get out of it. Like I said, your equating the word "rebuke" at Zechariah 3:1 with the word "rebuke" used at Jude 9 from the mouth of Michael the arc angel. Again, these two incidents have nothing to do with each other. Of course you say otherwise and furthermore, you identified Michaels' name as "Who is like Alahim."

That is your assumption. You have proved nothing. The instances are the sames and need spiritual comparison and you refuse to see that because one needs spiritual discerning to see the truth. I pray that you cease reading Alahim's word with your physical senses.

Fine, but the big problem you have is if your going to insist the angel of the Yahuah is really Michael the arc angel then Michael is the angel of the Yahuah at all the places throughout the Old Testament the angel of the Yahuah appears. The angel of the Yahuah appeared to Manoah at Judeges 13:18 and Manoah ask him his name. The angel of the Yahuah replied, "Why do yo ask my name, seeing it is "wonderful." The Hebrew tanslates it as "incomprensible." And btw, Isaiah 9:6 calls the coming Messiah "Wonderful" and who do you think that is referring to messenger?

Alahim used angels in mediation and you are refusing to see this truth from Alahim's word.

Ps 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

Satan coming as covering cherub deceiving Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:14, 16), Alahim placing cherubims to guard the way to the tree of life (Gen 3:24), the Cherubs above the mercy seat (Exo 25:19),Law given through disposition of angels (Acts 7:53, Gal 3:19) whereas the Mt sinai records that Alahim descended on Sinai and Moses went into that thick darkness seems paradox but when we understand that Alahim is invisible and used angels in mediation is harmonious and I am surprised how hard hearted you are. Jacobs ladder where Jacob saw vision of angels ascending and descending on the ladder ( John 1:51, Gen 28:12), Glory of Yahuahh going up from the cherub ( Ezekiel 10:4), 4 faces of cherub(10:14) , sound of cherubims wings as the sound of the Almighty (Ezekiel 10:6) are evidences of imageries which you are not willing to look at.

The word is 'secret' in Judges 13:18 which is the Hebrew word 'pil-ee' and the word in Isaiah 9:6 is 'peh'-leh' which means wonder. There is a difference. Here it is:

Look up the word 'pil-ee' which is translated as secret in Judges 13:18. It's used in psalms 139:6 where the Psalmist is saying that the knowledge of Alahim searching him and he not able to hide from him such knowledge is too secretive for him and he cannot attain unto it. The English translation says wonderful but the meaning is 'secret'

Ps 139:6 Such knowledge <da`ath> is too wonderful <pil'iy> <pil'iy> for me; it is high <sagab>, I cannot <yakol> attain unto it.

The angel of the Yahuah that appeared to Manoah asks Manoah a question stating why is his asking after his name seeing it is secret.

The name was 'secret' not the angel. What was also secret was the 'mediation' through that name. That's the point that you are not able to understand.

Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Then you have the angel of the Yahuah (who you say is Michael the arc angel) appearing to Hagar at Genesis 16:7 and Hagar claims she saw Alahim. At Genesis 17:1 the Yahuah appears to Abraham claiming to be Alahim Almighty, but you say no it's Michael again. Same thing at Genesis 18:1-6 the Yahuah appears to Abraham again and you have decided it's Michael.

Straw man. I did not say that 'Michael' appeared everywhere. I said Alahim used 'cherubs' as his face and voice to convey the message to man.

Ps 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

Through the cherub Alahim spoke and that stood as a figure for the Son who would mediate Alahim's face to us and the Son speaks as Alahim. That was the mystery now unfolded. According to you it was impossible for an angel/cherub to speak as Almighty. I already showed you Ezekiel 10. Here is a more elaboration to the imagery

Eze 10:5 And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty Alahim when he speaketh.

Sound of cherubims wings was as the voice of the Almighty Alahim when he speaketh

Eze 10:8 ¶ And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man's hand under their wings.

hand of a man under their wings

How much more evidence will you overlook James? These are spiritual things compared with spiritual.

Finally, the angel of the Yahuah appears to Abraham (Genesis 22) and He tells Abraham to offer his son to Him (which means if this is really Michael then Alahim is allowing Abraham to sacrifice his only son to an angel). And notice Genesis 22:15,16, "Then the angel of the Yahuah called to Abraham a second time from heaven, (so is this Michael calling out from heaven messenger two times? The first time was at Genesis 22:11). "and said, (Michael is saying according to you messenger) "BY MYSELF I HAVE SWORN, DECLARES THE YAHUAH, because (or why) you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son, vs17, indeed I WILL GREATLY MULTIPLY YOUR SEED AS THE STARS OF THE HEAVENS etc."

Again I did not say only Michael. But 'Cherub'-YES. That's what other scriptures testify.

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

Notice He doesn't say, "Alahim will." He says, "I will greatly multiply your descendents." And I haven't even gotten to the good part that realy "buries" you in that hole. Judges 2:1, "Now the angel of the Yahuah came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land WHICH I HAVE SWORN TO YOUR FATHERS; AND I SAID I WILL NEVER BREAK MY COVENANT WITH YOU." So can an agnel (if he really is an angel) multiply descendents, make covenants and then swears BY MYSELF to keep the covenant messenger? Who swore "BY HIMSELF" at Hebrews 6:13?

Of Course the speaker was Alahim but through MEDIATION and you can't comprehend how a Cherub can speak as Alahim himself. Alahim designed it that way as he was GUARDING THE PATTERN through Cherubs which were placed on the EAST side of Eden

Ge 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Mt 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Look up the imagery which stands for Messiah coming from the east

Zec 14:3 Then shall the YAHUA go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Eze 43:2 And, behold, the glory of the Alahim of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

Eze 43:4 And the glory of the YAHUAH came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

The rest of your post is just you giving verses about how angel who are ministering spirit function for Alahim. But the bottom line is the fact that angels (including Michael) have limited power and "CANNOT" do things that only Alahim Almighty can do. :eek;

IN THE ANGEL OF THE YAHUAH,
james

Alahim was guarding the pattern and that pattern is Messiah. Alahim did ride upon a cherub and I have shown you ample evidence of this. Your signature is demanding 'angelic worship' rather than Messiah hidden behind the veil of the cherub who stood as a pattern of mediation till he appeared as the face of Alahim to his creation.

Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 

You are showing ample evidence of being puffed up in your mind James. Humble yourself before Alahim to see and accept his pattern and not worship the shadows but the true light i.e Messiah.