David numbered Israel 2 Sam 24:1-25. Why was it a grievous sin to number Israel?
In the same account in Chronicles we read 1Ch 27:23 But David took not the number of them from twenty years old and under: because the YAHUAH had said he would increase Israel like to the stars of the heavens.
David did not use the measuring line as per instruction of Alahim. David forgot that Alahim was the great king and he was only a servant in the house of Alahim and only at the hands of Alahim it was required to number Israel not through will worship. Moses had also numbered the house of Israel but at the instruction of Alahim. The purpose was every man give a ransom for his soul unto the Yahuah that there be no plague when they are numbered.
Ex 30:11 ¶ And the YAHUAH spake unto Moses, saying,
12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the YAHUAH, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
Ex 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs an half shekel shall be the offering of the YAHUAH.
14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the YAHUAH.
David tried to imitate by not measuring those twenty years old and below(only those above) but not with a purpose of every man giving a ransom unto the Yahuah. The ransom is symbolic of sacrifice of Messiah which is the measuring line.
Ezekiel saw a vision of this:
Eze 40:3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.(in Chapter 42 we see can read about him measuring the temple)
Zechariah also saw Messiah with a measuring line: Zec 2:1 ¶ I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
In David's measuring there was no ransom paid. Later when he repented on instruction of Gad the seer he offered the ransom as per Alahim's measuring line.
2Sa 24:17 And David spake unto the YAHUAH when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house. 18 ¶ And Gad came that day to David, and said unto him, Go up, rear an altar unto the YAHUAH in the threshingfloor of Araunah the Jebusite.19 And David, according to the saying of Gad, went up as the YAHUAH commanded.
The Angel who revealed to John the revelation of Messiah had the golden reed to measure the city. This angel unfolding these revelations to John is sent by to show that Messiah is the one who alone measures the temple with his dividing line(ransom).
Re 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
The language is symbolic and we read John is given a reed like unto a rod to measure but there is no record of John doing the measuring.
Re 11:1 ¶ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of Alahim, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
He thrusts in the sickle to separate the wheat and the tares. The land will be divided by line:
Am 7:17 Therefore thus saith the YAHUAH; Thy wife shall be an harlot in the city, and thy sons and thy daughters shall fall by the sword, and thy land shall be divided by line; and thou shalt die in a polluted land: and Israel shall surely go into captivity forth of his land.
La 2:8 The YAHUAH hath purposed to destroy the wall of the daughter of Zion: he hath stretched out a line, he hath not withdrawn his hand from destroying: therefore he made the rampart and the wall to lament; they languished together.
Ps 78:55 He cast out the heathen also before them, and divided them an inheritance by line, and made the tribes of Israel to dwell in their tents.
David's sin was symbolic of pride of a human king for determining his strength and he did not look at the people of Israel as the people who were subject to the great king Messiah. Only Messiah can measure and draw the line because he is the one who harvests (thrusts in the sickle of judgment to gather and to scatter).David was given 3 choices of judgment but he chose to be in the hands of the Yahuah who is merciful and not fall in the hands of man. There was a plague for 3 days where 70 thousand people died in Israel.
3 days:
Joh 2:19 Yahusha answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Yahusha death is the measuring line which separates the elect from the non elect(those who profess that they belong to Messiah). He is the refiners fire and fullers soap. He is the rock of offense and the stumbling block.
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
It is dangerous to fall in the hands of Messiah
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to Alahim by Yahusha Messiah.
.....1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
Those professing Messiah verbally will not be able to stand before Messiah's measuring line. It is impossible to measure his temple by man. When Jerusalem is struck with the plague/judgment the elect are also affected because they were part of the same bundle with the tares, fornicating and doing things which are abominable but in a way it is the mercy of the Yahuah that he has placed the dividing line so that we are not judged along with the world.
The death of Messiah is the measuring line of man's destiny and only he will determine who will be measured into his temple and who will be in the outer court trampling the holy city.
Revelation 13:9-10 If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Messiah became captive for us by descending into the lower parts of the earth. He has the key of hades and of death . Notice in Revelation 3:9 if any man have ear let him hear. Our captivity is identified with Messiahs (we are identified by his death). Sword (remember Yahusha tells his disciples to carry swords in garden just before his death). He tells Peter he who kills with the sword will be killed by it. He was numbered with the transgressor's (Isaiah 53:12).
The one who captivated Israel for their sin was Alahim and one who killed with the sword of judgement was Alahim. Now he(Alahim) who captivated and killed with the sword went through captivity and sword himself to redeem Israel to give a ransom himself. His own arm brought Israel salvation.
By his captivity he led captivity captive and gave gifts to men (freedom).
Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. [9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? [10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Let him who has ears let him have ears. Those identified with Messiah will suffer tribulation jus as he did.
Eph 4:30 , 2Corin 1:22. The sealing of elect and binding and loosing of Satan is synonymous. Rev 7. The 4 winds loosed after elect are sealed. The strong man was bound by stronger man Messiah. To the elect he is bound and this is the reign of 1000 years that elect have( forever).
Satan is loosed/his wound is healed in a sense that the measuring line has determined who belongs to Messiah and who to Satan. Jacob I have loved and Esau I've hated. So Satan uses Esau to persecute Jacob. Ishmael to Isaac.
Galatians 4:29-30 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
This is all because of the measuring line. Satan sees the hedge (Alahim's ownership on Job, this shows Job was sealed and Satan knew it) as it was for Job and couldn't harm him because of it and needed Alahims permission. Job is an example of the elect who suffer tribulation and distress. It seemed to Job that Alahim had hidden his face from him but in all his affliction Alahim was with him. Yahusha said that the bridegroom will be taken from them and then they will fast (his face hidden). This is our sanctification that we may be worthy of his kingdom .
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Messiah hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
He is the refiners fire purifying his children that we may stand besides him as the gold of Ophir
Isaiah 13:12-13 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. [13] Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Yahuah of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
The true church is likened to gold of Ophir. Job is an example of what will become of us and just as his end was better than his beginning even so with us. More later.
On the lines of Rev 13:9-10. Yahusha said he is not come to bring peace but a sword. From now on father will be against his son.
This 2 edged sword (Logos) has proceeded to bring in the dividing line. Alahim made light to shine out of darkness and separated the light from darkness and call the light day and the night darkness. We are children of light not of night.
Great tribulation : Pray that your flight be not in winter or Sabbath day for then there will be GT as never was.
Winter is harvest time and he who sat on the cloud thrust his sickle to gather and to scatter. Sabbath again is day of rest for Alahim people but unrest to those with the mark of the beast.
Revelation 14:11 KJV
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The flight in Winter or on Sabbath day is the Day of the Yahuah when alas it will be too late. That's why scriptures warn us ' Today if you will hear his voice harden not your hearts'.
Satan knows his time his short when he sees Messiah s seal on us. He chases us as a thorn in our flesh.
In all this we will be victorious. National Israel was a type and we are part of the Israel of Alahim. What happened with them physically happens to us spiritually. Just as Satan tried to make Israel sin by making them believe in false gods and only those who were not Israel but were Jews by name fell even so now. The dividing line determines this.
Time, times and dividing of time of Daniel is also stated as 42 months of Gentiles treading under foot the holy city and three years and six months(no rain when Elijah prayed James 5:17)
These are not literal years but are symbolic of entire periods of judgments where Alahim set his measuring line to DIVIDE his people from those who are not.
42 months: Judges 12. Men of Ephraim(tribe of Israel) came against Jephthah(judge-a type of Messiah) and they were slain of them forty and two thousand.
Rev 13:5 the beast was given a mouth speaking great blasphemies and he was given power to continue forty and two months.
2 Kings 2:24 Elisha curses the children who mock him and two she bears come out of the wood and tear the children. Elisha again a type of Messiah and the number 42 shows the judgment period. These children were from Bethel (place where Jacob dreamed of ladder going to heaven) 2 Kings 2:23
Ge 31:13 I am the Alahim of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.
Three years and six months: Lu 4:25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
There were many widows but Elijah(type of Messiah) was sent only to one widow. Again shows dividing line.
Jas 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
Time, times and dividing of time: Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
This is the same period where it says that the saints were given into Satan's hands for time, times and dividing of time. There seems to be a contradiction when we read the woman representing elect is nourished for time and times and half a time from the face of the serpent. But when we understand the measuring line of Messiah we understand that time and judgment is always part and parcel of a believers life. We are persecuted by Satan and in Great Tribulation but at the same time Alahim protects us and nourishes us while we are near Satan's throne.
Re 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Re 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
The entire body of Messiah goes through Great Tribulation. This is not a privilege only to end time believers as Harold Camping and company have always portrayed or even for a matter of fact Tony Silva. They don't see the dividing line/measuring line of Messiah which divides the wheat from the tares in every generation.The term time, times and dividing of time shows that the Logos pierces time with his two edged sword to divide asunder the spirit soul and body ,the thoughts and intents of men's heart that determine who are HIS and who are not HIS.
In the same account in Chronicles we read 1Ch 27:23 But David took not the number of them from twenty years old and under: because the YAHUAH had said he would increase Israel like to the stars of the heavens.
David did not use the measuring line as per instruction of Alahim. David forgot that Alahim was the great king and he was only a servant in the house of Alahim and only at the hands of Alahim it was required to number Israel not through will worship. Moses had also numbered the house of Israel but at the instruction of Alahim. The purpose was every man give a ransom for his soul unto the Yahuah that there be no plague when they are numbered.
Ex 30:11 ¶ And the YAHUAH spake unto Moses, saying,
12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the YAHUAH, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
Ex 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs an half shekel shall be the offering of the YAHUAH.
14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the YAHUAH.
David tried to imitate by not measuring those twenty years old and below(only those above) but not with a purpose of every man giving a ransom unto the Yahuah. The ransom is symbolic of sacrifice of Messiah which is the measuring line.
Ezekiel saw a vision of this:
Eze 40:3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.(in Chapter 42 we see can read about him measuring the temple)
Zechariah also saw Messiah with a measuring line: Zec 2:1 ¶ I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
In David's measuring there was no ransom paid. Later when he repented on instruction of Gad the seer he offered the ransom as per Alahim's measuring line.
2Sa 24:17 And David spake unto the YAHUAH when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house. 18 ¶ And Gad came that day to David, and said unto him, Go up, rear an altar unto the YAHUAH in the threshingfloor of Araunah the Jebusite.19 And David, according to the saying of Gad, went up as the YAHUAH commanded.
The Angel who revealed to John the revelation of Messiah had the golden reed to measure the city. This angel unfolding these revelations to John is sent by to show that Messiah is the one who alone measures the temple with his dividing line(ransom).
Re 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
The language is symbolic and we read John is given a reed like unto a rod to measure but there is no record of John doing the measuring.
Re 11:1 ¶ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of Alahim, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
He thrusts in the sickle to separate the wheat and the tares. The land will be divided by line:
Am 7:17 Therefore thus saith the YAHUAH; Thy wife shall be an harlot in the city, and thy sons and thy daughters shall fall by the sword, and thy land shall be divided by line; and thou shalt die in a polluted land: and Israel shall surely go into captivity forth of his land.
La 2:8 The YAHUAH hath purposed to destroy the wall of the daughter of Zion: he hath stretched out a line, he hath not withdrawn his hand from destroying: therefore he made the rampart and the wall to lament; they languished together.
Ps 78:55 He cast out the heathen also before them, and divided them an inheritance by line, and made the tribes of Israel to dwell in their tents.
David's sin was symbolic of pride of a human king for determining his strength and he did not look at the people of Israel as the people who were subject to the great king Messiah. Only Messiah can measure and draw the line because he is the one who harvests (thrusts in the sickle of judgment to gather and to scatter).David was given 3 choices of judgment but he chose to be in the hands of the Yahuah who is merciful and not fall in the hands of man. There was a plague for 3 days where 70 thousand people died in Israel.
3 days:
Joh 2:19 Yahusha answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Yahusha death is the measuring line which separates the elect from the non elect(those who profess that they belong to Messiah). He is the refiners fire and fullers soap. He is the rock of offense and the stumbling block.
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
It is dangerous to fall in the hands of Messiah
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to Alahim by Yahusha Messiah.
.....1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
Those professing Messiah verbally will not be able to stand before Messiah's measuring line. It is impossible to measure his temple by man. When Jerusalem is struck with the plague/judgment the elect are also affected because they were part of the same bundle with the tares, fornicating and doing things which are abominable but in a way it is the mercy of the Yahuah that he has placed the dividing line so that we are not judged along with the world.
The death of Messiah is the measuring line of man's destiny and only he will determine who will be measured into his temple and who will be in the outer court trampling the holy city.
Revelation 13:9-10 If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Messiah became captive for us by descending into the lower parts of the earth. He has the key of hades and of death . Notice in Revelation 3:9 if any man have ear let him hear. Our captivity is identified with Messiahs (we are identified by his death). Sword (remember Yahusha tells his disciples to carry swords in garden just before his death). He tells Peter he who kills with the sword will be killed by it. He was numbered with the transgressor's (Isaiah 53:12).
The one who captivated Israel for their sin was Alahim and one who killed with the sword of judgement was Alahim. Now he(Alahim) who captivated and killed with the sword went through captivity and sword himself to redeem Israel to give a ransom himself. His own arm brought Israel salvation.
By his captivity he led captivity captive and gave gifts to men (freedom).
Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. [9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? [10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Let him who has ears let him have ears. Those identified with Messiah will suffer tribulation jus as he did.
Eph 4:30 , 2Corin 1:22. The sealing of elect and binding and loosing of Satan is synonymous. Rev 7. The 4 winds loosed after elect are sealed. The strong man was bound by stronger man Messiah. To the elect he is bound and this is the reign of 1000 years that elect have( forever).
Satan is loosed/his wound is healed in a sense that the measuring line has determined who belongs to Messiah and who to Satan. Jacob I have loved and Esau I've hated. So Satan uses Esau to persecute Jacob. Ishmael to Isaac.
Galatians 4:29-30 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
This is all because of the measuring line. Satan sees the hedge (Alahim's ownership on Job, this shows Job was sealed and Satan knew it) as it was for Job and couldn't harm him because of it and needed Alahims permission. Job is an example of the elect who suffer tribulation and distress. It seemed to Job that Alahim had hidden his face from him but in all his affliction Alahim was with him. Yahusha said that the bridegroom will be taken from them and then they will fast (his face hidden). This is our sanctification that we may be worthy of his kingdom .
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Messiah hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
He is the refiners fire purifying his children that we may stand besides him as the gold of Ophir
Isaiah 13:12-13 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. [13] Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Yahuah of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
The true church is likened to gold of Ophir. Job is an example of what will become of us and just as his end was better than his beginning even so with us. More later.
On the lines of Rev 13:9-10. Yahusha said he is not come to bring peace but a sword. From now on father will be against his son.
This 2 edged sword (Logos) has proceeded to bring in the dividing line. Alahim made light to shine out of darkness and separated the light from darkness and call the light day and the night darkness. We are children of light not of night.
Great tribulation : Pray that your flight be not in winter or Sabbath day for then there will be GT as never was.
Winter is harvest time and he who sat on the cloud thrust his sickle to gather and to scatter. Sabbath again is day of rest for Alahim people but unrest to those with the mark of the beast.
Revelation 14:11 KJV
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The flight in Winter or on Sabbath day is the Day of the Yahuah when alas it will be too late. That's why scriptures warn us ' Today if you will hear his voice harden not your hearts'.
Satan knows his time his short when he sees Messiah s seal on us. He chases us as a thorn in our flesh.
In all this we will be victorious. National Israel was a type and we are part of the Israel of Alahim. What happened with them physically happens to us spiritually. Just as Satan tried to make Israel sin by making them believe in false gods and only those who were not Israel but were Jews by name fell even so now. The dividing line determines this.
Time, times and dividing of time of Daniel is also stated as 42 months of Gentiles treading under foot the holy city and three years and six months(no rain when Elijah prayed James 5:17)
These are not literal years but are symbolic of entire periods of judgments where Alahim set his measuring line to DIVIDE his people from those who are not.
42 months: Judges 12. Men of Ephraim(tribe of Israel) came against Jephthah(judge-a type of Messiah) and they were slain of them forty and two thousand.
Rev 13:5 the beast was given a mouth speaking great blasphemies and he was given power to continue forty and two months.
2 Kings 2:24 Elisha curses the children who mock him and two she bears come out of the wood and tear the children. Elisha again a type of Messiah and the number 42 shows the judgment period. These children were from Bethel (place where Jacob dreamed of ladder going to heaven) 2 Kings 2:23
Ge 31:13 I am the Alahim of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.
Three years and six months: Lu 4:25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
There were many widows but Elijah(type of Messiah) was sent only to one widow. Again shows dividing line.
Jas 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
Time, times and dividing of time: Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
This is the same period where it says that the saints were given into Satan's hands for time, times and dividing of time. There seems to be a contradiction when we read the woman representing elect is nourished for time and times and half a time from the face of the serpent. But when we understand the measuring line of Messiah we understand that time and judgment is always part and parcel of a believers life. We are persecuted by Satan and in Great Tribulation but at the same time Alahim protects us and nourishes us while we are near Satan's throne.
Re 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Re 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
The entire body of Messiah goes through Great Tribulation. This is not a privilege only to end time believers as Harold Camping and company have always portrayed or even for a matter of fact Tony Silva. They don't see the dividing line/measuring line of Messiah which divides the wheat from the tares in every generation.The term time, times and dividing of time shows that the Logos pierces time with his two edged sword to divide asunder the spirit soul and body ,the thoughts and intents of men's heart that determine who are HIS and who are not HIS.
Originally Posted by all4Him
