Jn 17:3 is SO unitarian that there is no grammatical or otherwise refute to this verse as far as I know. I have no idea what you are saying. Does anyone else? Make heads or tails? Of your statement, sir? James White is not stupid, and all he said was that this verse must be SEEN IN LIGHT of the whole text of Bible. Which means he don't know EITHER how to refute it specifically. But you figured it out? How so? Please make more clear what is clear to you.
Joh 17:3 αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον
hootos (this) deh (and) eimi (am) ho (that) aheeoneeos (perpetual) zoe (life) hina (so that) ginosko (know) soo (thou) ho (that) monos (sole) alaytheenos (true) theos (Divinity) kai (even) hos (who) apostello ( sent ) eeaysooce ( Yahusha ) khristos ( Messiah)
In English: And this AM THAT PERPETUAL LIFE so that know thou that sole true Divinity even who sent (hebrew: Yahusha) Messiah.The word for life is 'ZOE' which is Alahim's OWN IMMORTAL LIFE and KJV misses personifying and attributing this LIFE to Messiah. KJV reads ' And this is life eternal' against 'And this am that eternal life' which is in Greek. The word for sent is 'apostello' which means on a MISSION.
Uni's cant reconcile how the life of Alahim sent forth from Alahim was on a mission.1Jo 1:1 ¶ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
Just because we will be given this life it will not put us on par with Messiah through whom we will get this 'Zoe' on the last day. Without him we would never receive this life because he mediated it for us by taking on mortality.2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Yahusha Messiah, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
How can one hypostasis or being come OUT from another unless this is purely gnostical? I was Oneness Pentecostal for over 10 years, sir. This is the only model I know of....modalistic and well...gnostic. I assure you this was NOT the view of the first two gen Jews turned Messiahian.
You need to read Heb 1:3 to see and believe. The substance was engraved into Messiah when was manifested in the flesh.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the engraving of his substance (hupostasis), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Divinity (theotes) bodily.You may read how our saving faith is an objective reality of Alahim in a 2 parts post based on Heb 11:1 which shows that FAITH is the SUBSTANCE (Hupostasis) of things hoped for and the evidence of things UNSEEN.We see from Heb 1:3 that Messiah is the ENGRAVING OF GOD'S HUPOSTASIS and anyone connected to Messiah connects him to Alahim.
http://dsouzashodan72.blogspot.in/20...ty-of-god.html
http://dsouzashodan72.blogspot.in/20...ty-of-god.html
I suspect your last sentence addresses the Messiah. I view it to address Alahim. But that's just me, don't never mind...
...unless you want to know my POV, but no forget it...I wouldn't IMPOSE upon you sir...
Here is the verse again: 1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of Alahim is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Yahusha Messiah. This is the true Alahim, and eternal life.
Without the Son of Alahim come we wouldn't have got an understanding of who Alahim is. Alahim would have been unknown to us and this is possible by only being in Messiah. If one is not in Messiah he cannot connect to Alahim.
Adam was a creature subject to vanity not by his will but by reason of him who subjected him in hope. That hope is Messiah in you the hope of glory.Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
You can't find Alahim outside of him.
Col 1:27 To whom Alahim would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;which is Messiah in you, the hope of glory:
If Messiah is put on the same par as Adam that would make him a creature subject to vanity but scriptures teach that he is our hope.
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great Alahim and our Saviour Yahusha Messiah;
The logos of life is not Alahim, that makes two. Alahim is one, um. Well that's just a theory. That is, the worldview of the Jew. Alahim is simply one. No other thoughts pertaining to this is necessary. Alahim is One.
Said again, Alahim is One. Amen, brother.
The Logos of life has to be Alahim because the word for life there is 'ZOE' which is Alahim's immortal life.
1John1:1 should be compared to John 1:1c which says '...that Alahim existed as that Logos'
One Alahim, not 2 persons-ONE FACE & ONE NAMERe 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of Alahim and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
The substance (hupostasis) was engraved for DISTRIBUTION not MUTIPLICATION.
The DISTRIBUTION can be seen in us being united to Alahim IN CHRIST. Apart from him you cannot see, know, hear, touch or handle Alahim.
This is key, sir. The Holy Spirit is what makes Yahusha divine, no more and no less. He is ELOHIM but not the One True Elohim. He is spirit, but not Alahim. He is over the angels but not over his Alahim or equal to Him.
As spirit is omnipresent, so to is Yahusha inhabiting this world, in what exact way no one knows. We DO know however the Father only is Alahim.
1 Cor 8
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one Alahim, the Father,
And who is the HOLY SPIRIT? Is he a Person? No he is not a Person.
But Alahim is Spirit
Joh 4:24 Alahim is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Let me show you from the commandments of the law how this is spiritually interpreted? The law is spiritual but man is carnal and a slave of sin.
Le 2:4 And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baken in the oven, it shall be unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, or unleavened wafers anointed with oil.
Lev 2:1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the YAHUAH, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
Lev 2:2 And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the YAHUAH:
The unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil stood spiritually for Messiah being filled with the fullness of Divinity bodily and oil stood for Alahim's Spirit
Exo 30:23 Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,
Exo 30:24 And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:
Exo 30:25 And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.
Exo 30:26 And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony,
Exo 30:27 And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick and his vessels, and the altar of incense,
Exo 30:28 And the altar of burnt offering with all his vessels, and the laver and his foot.
Exo 30:29 And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy.
Son 1:13 A bundle of myrrh is my wellbeloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.
Son 3:6 Who is this that cometh out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke, perfumed with myrrh andfrankincense, with all powders of the merchant?
This all speaks of Messiah who is full of the powders of the merchant (myrrh, sweet cinnamon, cassia,sweet calamus, olive oil) which was used as the holy anointing oil where all the vessels of the sanctuary were sanctified with and this oil was even applied on the ark of the testimony.
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of Alahim, and not of us.
The unleavened cake with oil & frankincense which was offered as memorial of it upon the altar, an offering made by fire shows the fullness of Divinity in Messiah bodily who offered himself for us as a sacrifice for our sins.
Lev 2:1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the YAHUAH, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
Lev 2:2 And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the YAHUAH:
The powders of the merchant mingled with the olive oil which became the anointing oil making the ark of the testament, all vessels of ministry, altar etc holy was Messiah himself mingled with Alahim's Spirit (from where he came out) as the Quickening Spirit.
2Co 3:17 Now the Yahuah is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Yahuah is, there is liberty.
It was not accidental that the wise men brought these gifts to Messiah when he was born
Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
He who has ears let him hear what the Spirit says.....
I did not mean to mock you sir. You kept saying 'carnal carnal' and I might have reacted negatively. I am sorry.
That's ok Nothead. I'm glad you realize that we should respect each other as persons.
I apologize again, I thought this was the common Trin-view that each HOLY referred to a different prosopon.
I'm not a Trinitarian and neither am I Oneness Pentecostal who teach that Yahusha himself is the Father.
Yeah, who was gonna mediate his sins, GOD?? No, the Messiah was. Stephen was putting himself in Yahusha' hands. LITERALLY since he saw Yahusha LITERALLY as his mediator. Reminder:
1 tim 2
5 For there is one Alahim, and one mediator between Alahim and men, the man Messiah Yahusha;
The passage is not of mediating for his sins. Stephen was praying for the sins of those stoning him. He was committing his spirit to Yahusha by calling on his name. The breath returns to Alahim who gave it and if he is committing his breath to Messiah then Messiah is Alahim. Accept it or reject it.
Shema ain't very complicated sir. Not gnostic, not mysterious. Not an emanation from Jabba the Hut, and not nothing magical. It is purely peshat law:
Deut 30
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Yahuah thy Alahim, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Yahuah thy Alahim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.(Second half of Shema)
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
The word is night unto thee in thy mouth that if you confess Yahusha as Yahuah you will be saved.
Hear O Israel the Yahuah our Alahim is One Alahim has to be interpreted when we see that the throne of Alahim and the throne of Lamb is the same, One face, one name.
Unleavened cake mingled with oil and frankincense and powders of merchant mingled with olive oil making all things holy.
Messenger
Joh 17:3 αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον
hootos (this) deh (and) eimi (am) ho (that) aheeoneeos (perpetual) zoe (life) hina (so that) ginosko (know) soo (thou) ho (that) monos (sole) alaytheenos (true) theos (Divinity) kai (even) hos (who) apostello ( sent ) eeaysooce ( Yahusha ) khristos ( Messiah)
In English: And this AM THAT PERPETUAL LIFE so that know thou that sole true Divinity even who sent (hebrew: Yahusha) Messiah.The word for life is 'ZOE' which is Alahim's OWN IMMORTAL LIFE and KJV misses personifying and attributing this LIFE to Messiah. KJV reads ' And this is life eternal' against 'And this am that eternal life' which is in Greek. The word for sent is 'apostello' which means on a MISSION.
Uni's cant reconcile how the life of Alahim sent forth from Alahim was on a mission.1Jo 1:1 ¶ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
Just because we will be given this life it will not put us on par with Messiah through whom we will get this 'Zoe' on the last day. Without him we would never receive this life because he mediated it for us by taking on mortality.2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Yahusha Messiah, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
How can one hypostasis or being come OUT from another unless this is purely gnostical? I was Oneness Pentecostal for over 10 years, sir. This is the only model I know of....modalistic and well...gnostic. I assure you this was NOT the view of the first two gen Jews turned Messiahian.
You need to read Heb 1:3 to see and believe. The substance was engraved into Messiah when was manifested in the flesh.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the engraving of his substance (hupostasis), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Divinity (theotes) bodily.You may read how our saving faith is an objective reality of Alahim in a 2 parts post based on Heb 11:1 which shows that FAITH is the SUBSTANCE (Hupostasis) of things hoped for and the evidence of things UNSEEN.We see from Heb 1:3 that Messiah is the ENGRAVING OF GOD'S HUPOSTASIS and anyone connected to Messiah connects him to Alahim.
http://dsouzashodan72.blogspot.in/20...ty-of-god.html
http://dsouzashodan72.blogspot.in/20...ty-of-god.html
I suspect your last sentence addresses the Messiah. I view it to address Alahim. But that's just me, don't never mind...
...unless you want to know my POV, but no forget it...I wouldn't IMPOSE upon you sir...
Here is the verse again: 1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of Alahim is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Yahusha Messiah. This is the true Alahim, and eternal life.
Without the Son of Alahim come we wouldn't have got an understanding of who Alahim is. Alahim would have been unknown to us and this is possible by only being in Messiah. If one is not in Messiah he cannot connect to Alahim.
Adam was a creature subject to vanity not by his will but by reason of him who subjected him in hope. That hope is Messiah in you the hope of glory.Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
You can't find Alahim outside of him.
Col 1:27 To whom Alahim would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;which is Messiah in you, the hope of glory:
If Messiah is put on the same par as Adam that would make him a creature subject to vanity but scriptures teach that he is our hope.
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great Alahim and our Saviour Yahusha Messiah;
The logos of life is not Alahim, that makes two. Alahim is one, um. Well that's just a theory. That is, the worldview of the Jew. Alahim is simply one. No other thoughts pertaining to this is necessary. Alahim is One.
Said again, Alahim is One. Amen, brother.
The Logos of life has to be Alahim because the word for life there is 'ZOE' which is Alahim's immortal life.
1John1:1 should be compared to John 1:1c which says '...that Alahim existed as that Logos'
One Alahim, not 2 persons-ONE FACE & ONE NAMERe 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of Alahim and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
The substance (hupostasis) was engraved for DISTRIBUTION not MUTIPLICATION.
The DISTRIBUTION can be seen in us being united to Alahim IN CHRIST. Apart from him you cannot see, know, hear, touch or handle Alahim.
This is key, sir. The Holy Spirit is what makes Yahusha divine, no more and no less. He is ELOHIM but not the One True Elohim. He is spirit, but not Alahim. He is over the angels but not over his Alahim or equal to Him.
As spirit is omnipresent, so to is Yahusha inhabiting this world, in what exact way no one knows. We DO know however the Father only is Alahim.
1 Cor 8
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one Alahim, the Father,
And who is the HOLY SPIRIT? Is he a Person? No he is not a Person.
But Alahim is Spirit
Joh 4:24 Alahim is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Let me show you from the commandments of the law how this is spiritually interpreted? The law is spiritual but man is carnal and a slave of sin.
Le 2:4 And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baken in the oven, it shall be unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, or unleavened wafers anointed with oil.
Lev 2:1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the YAHUAH, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
Lev 2:2 And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the YAHUAH:
The unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil stood spiritually for Messiah being filled with the fullness of Divinity bodily and oil stood for Alahim's Spirit
Exo 30:23 Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,
Exo 30:24 And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:
Exo 30:25 And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.
Exo 30:26 And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony,
Exo 30:27 And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick and his vessels, and the altar of incense,
Exo 30:28 And the altar of burnt offering with all his vessels, and the laver and his foot.
Exo 30:29 And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy.
Son 1:13 A bundle of myrrh is my wellbeloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.
Son 3:6 Who is this that cometh out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke, perfumed with myrrh andfrankincense, with all powders of the merchant?
This all speaks of Messiah who is full of the powders of the merchant (myrrh, sweet cinnamon, cassia,sweet calamus, olive oil) which was used as the holy anointing oil where all the vessels of the sanctuary were sanctified with and this oil was even applied on the ark of the testimony.
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of Alahim, and not of us.
The unleavened cake with oil & frankincense which was offered as memorial of it upon the altar, an offering made by fire shows the fullness of Divinity in Messiah bodily who offered himself for us as a sacrifice for our sins.
Lev 2:1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the YAHUAH, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
Lev 2:2 And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the YAHUAH:
The powders of the merchant mingled with the olive oil which became the anointing oil making the ark of the testament, all vessels of ministry, altar etc holy was Messiah himself mingled with Alahim's Spirit (from where he came out) as the Quickening Spirit.
2Co 3:17 Now the Yahuah is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Yahuah is, there is liberty.
It was not accidental that the wise men brought these gifts to Messiah when he was born
Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
He who has ears let him hear what the Spirit says.....
I did not mean to mock you sir. You kept saying 'carnal carnal' and I might have reacted negatively. I am sorry.
That's ok Nothead. I'm glad you realize that we should respect each other as persons.
I apologize again, I thought this was the common Trin-view that each HOLY referred to a different prosopon.
I'm not a Trinitarian and neither am I Oneness Pentecostal who teach that Yahusha himself is the Father.
Yeah, who was gonna mediate his sins, GOD?? No, the Messiah was. Stephen was putting himself in Yahusha' hands. LITERALLY since he saw Yahusha LITERALLY as his mediator. Reminder:
1 tim 2
5 For there is one Alahim, and one mediator between Alahim and men, the man Messiah Yahusha;
The passage is not of mediating for his sins. Stephen was praying for the sins of those stoning him. He was committing his spirit to Yahusha by calling on his name. The breath returns to Alahim who gave it and if he is committing his breath to Messiah then Messiah is Alahim. Accept it or reject it.
Shema ain't very complicated sir. Not gnostic, not mysterious. Not an emanation from Jabba the Hut, and not nothing magical. It is purely peshat law:
Deut 30
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Yahuah thy Alahim, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Yahuah thy Alahim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.(Second half of Shema)
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
The word is night unto thee in thy mouth that if you confess Yahusha as Yahuah you will be saved.
Hear O Israel the Yahuah our Alahim is One Alahim has to be interpreted when we see that the throne of Alahim and the throne of Lamb is the same, One face, one name.
Unleavened cake mingled with oil and frankincense and powders of merchant mingled with olive oil making all things holy.
Messenger
3 comments:
The 4 living creatures in revelations who look like a man an ox and a lion and an eagle r worshipping and calling God holy holy in revelations 4: 7-11 and according to u the cherubs or 4 living creatures is literally christ cuz christ is symbolized by those beasts then u contradict ur own heretic doctrine cuz in revelations 24 elders and the 4 living creatures fall down And worship God almighty so the bottom line is the chrubs r just cherubs the 4 living creatures r not christ Nd christ is not almighty
Hi Nickel I know your agenda of coming on my blog and posting. I don't want to close all doors of discussion with you.One needs spiritual discernment to understand who the 4 living creatures are: http://dsouzashodan72.blogspot.in/2013/11/gods-covenant-with-living-creatures.html
Read the above study which is on the same blog
One more thing I never said Cherubs were literally Christ but angelic mediation stood as a shadow of Christ. God placed cherubims at the east of Eden (Gen 3:24) to guard the WAY to the tree of life. Law was given through disposition of angels (Acts 7:53, Gal 3:19), cherubims wings sound was as the sound of the Almighty God and there was a hand of a man under those wings (Ezekiel 10: 5,8), Pslams 18:10 God rode on cherub and many more imageries speak of Christ as the WAY and the pattern that was guarded all along. Satan came as covering cherub to distort the pattern (thou sealest up the sum which means: 'thou distorted the pattern') Ezekiel 28:12-16)and he still does that today and I feel sorry for you that he has led you to another gospel. You are just not able to see the deity of Christ because Satan has distorted it to show you a half truth which is part of Mystery Babylon. The 4 living creatures are the elect with the eyes in the front, within and behind which shows that only elect understand the God who was (eyes behind), is (eyes within) and is to come (eyes in the front).I gave you the link to the study on 'God's covenant with the Living Creatures'. The 4 faces are the 4 gospels which spring from Eden which Satan has been trying to distort but God guarded it through Cherubims by placing them in the east of Eden which was a type of heavenly Jerusalem. These are spiritual things and need spiritual discernment which only Christ can provide.
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