Mediating as Angel of Yahuah-Carm forum post

James quote: That's right messenger, I am talking about the "Love of Alahim." And I'm reminded of what C.S.Lewis stated: "If Alahim was a single Person, then before the world was made, He was not love." Do you really think that statement means what your advocating that the Trinity has to be false? In spite of the fact that John 1:1 clearly states, "The Word/Logos was "WITH" Alahim, and the Word/Logos "WAS" Alahim. And your telling me I don't understand the Deity of Messiah because according to you I'm assuming Him to be the "ETERNAL SON?" End quote

My response: Alahim is not a PERSON. In transcendence he is unknowable and unapproachable and he is not Trinity of persons. C.S LEWIS quotes are not Alahim’s WORD so stick to Alahim’s word not quotes from men. The LOGOS/WORD is not the ETERNAL SON and that’s how you interpret it and yes you do not understand the DEITY since your adding to Alahim’s WORD as ‘ETERNAL SON’

James quote: I'm not "assuming" anything but rather proving the Son "IS" eternal and was always eternal "WITH" Alahim because He "IS" Alahim according to John 1:1. Moreover, we as human beings were created in Alahim's image which means we possess certain characteristics of Alahims character. In fact, the Bible is clear that Alahim exists in relationship with His Son and with the Holy Spirit. The Bible terms it the "Alahimhead" and we term it the Trinity. How many times have you heard someone say, "Alahim wants to have a realtionship with you?" Or the question, "Do you have a personal relationship with Yahusha Messiah?"End quote

My response: There you go, you are reading John 1:1 as Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Eternal Son, and the Eternal Son was with Alahim, and the Eternal Son was Alahim.
That’s adding to Alahim’s Word. John uses the word Logos not Eternal Son because Logos was both transcendent as well as immanent-both internal as well as external to Alahim. Logos is Alahim’s soul essence, his thoughts, his expression, his wisdom, his intellect. One cannot know Alahim’s thoughts unless he expresses his thoughts to us and that’s exactly what Alahim did. He pierced his creation to reveal his thoughts when he said “Let there be light…” Gen 1:3. Paul tells us what Alahim meant by when he said “ Let there be light”
2Co 4:6 For Alahim, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of Alahim in the face of Yahusha Messiah.
He planned his Divinity be manifested in an IMAGE and that’s why the LOGOS was made flesh so that creation could be face to face with the invisible Alahim through his image.
Col 1:15 Who (Yahushah) is the image of the invisible Alahim, the firstborn of every creature:
The LOGOS was made flesh. The SON was not made flesh.
Joh 1:14 And the Word (LOGOS not SON) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
When the LOGOS was made flesh he was called the SON not before that and that’s why I said you have the cart before the horse. The creation is attributed to the Son because the SON is Alahim’s own LOGOS made flesh. Externalized for our sakes.
Ps 33:6 By the word of the YAHUAH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (spirit) of his mouth.
That’s why John ties up the SON to the LOGOS and show that they are coterminous.
Col 2:9 For in him (Yahusha) dwelleth all the fulness of the Divinity bodily. –It doesn’t mean that 3 persons are dwelling in Yahusha but the fullness of Alahim dwelling in his image. That’s why Yahusha told Philip that if he had seen him he has seen the Father.  

James quote: We are social and realtionship beings messenger and so is Alahim. Why else does Yahusha give a wonderful discourse of this relationship within the Alahimhead at John 17, and why Yahusha wants us to be one in unity just like He and His Father are one in unity. John 17:20,21, "I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; vs21, that they may be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in US; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me." And like the layman stated on the oneness board, "If you are in a relationship with the Father/Son/Holy Spirit, then you must be in a relationship wth them all; for there is only one Alahim. If you deny one, you deny all."End Quote

My response: Alahim calls us to be rooted and grounded in Messiah not in Trinity of persons. If you are in Messiah you are in Alahim and Alahim is in you. There is no other way beyond Messiah. You cannot call on the Holy Spirit to be saved or call out on the Father to be saved. You have to call on the name of Yahushah to be saved because if you have him you have all of GOD. That’s the truth.
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Messiah Yahusha the Yahuah, so walk ye in him:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him (Yahusha), which is the head of all principality and power:
Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

James quote: Now, getting back to topic of this thread, the angel of the Yahuah you told me, "The appearance in the OT as ANGEL OF THE YAHUAH was based on the futuristic rold of the MEDIATOR." I had ask you where you came up with this idea because again, you are contradicting yourself. You said: "yes Alahim is invisible but being invisible he can still appear in a FORM because there is no limit to his POWER. Hebrews writer says that Alahim in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets and one such manner was ANGEL OF THE YAHUAH.

Since Alahim/Yahusha Messiah Himself stated that Alahim His Father is invisible on more than one occasion you can't just make up an excuse that "well he can still appear in a FORM because there is no limit to his POWER." Really! At Genesis 16:7 the angel of the Yahuah appeared to Hagar and promised her that "I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they shall be too many to count." (Genesis 16:10). The next chapter starting at Genesis 1:1-2, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Yahuah appeared t Abram and said to him, "I am Alahim Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless. vs2, And I will establish My covenant between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly."

First of all how is this a "futuristic role of the MEDIATOR" who is promising Hagar that he will multiply her descendants? How can you call this "mediating?" Secondly, who is the being that appeared to Abram and promised to multiply Abram's descendants?End quote

My response: The Logos was transcendent as well as immanent. There is no limit to Alahim’s power. He can appear in any form and that’s exactly what he did. I was telling Molly on this thread the same.
Here it is again:
Nu 12:5 And the YAHUAH came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the YAHUAH will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the YAHUAH shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

The Word 'SIMILTUDE' is 08544. hnwmt t@muwnah, tem-oo-naw'
Search for 08544 in KJV


or tmunah {tem-oo-naw'}; from 4327; something portioned (i.e. fashioned) out, as a shape, i.e. (indefinitely) phantom, or (specifically) embodiment, or (figuratively) manifestation (of favor):--image, likeness, similitude.

Which means LIKENESS

Da 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of Alahim

This was not the ETERNAL SON but 'A FORM OF GOD IN HIS LIKENESS' and these appearances was based on the futuristic role of the MEDIATOR not the MEDIATOR HIMSELF. MOSES stood as a mediator for the people between Alahim and Israel and Messiah is compared to MOSES.

Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man (Yahusha) was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

2 Mediators are being compared to each other. The ANGEL OF THE YAHUAH was not the Eternal Son but Alahim speaking to man through a form/likeness in divers manners sometimes like a man wrestling with Jacob, sometimes through flame of fire in a bush, sometimes as Angel of the Yahuah, sometimes as pillar of fire etc.

If you look up the symbolisms in the way Alahim manifested to the prophets you can look up in NT the same symbolisms are used for Messiah.

Example: He appeared to Moses in a flame of fire.

Ac 7:30 ¶ And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Yahuah in a flame of fire in a bush.

Re 2:18 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of Alahim, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Pillar of fire and pillar of cloud:

Ex 13:21 And the YAHUAH went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

1Co 10:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Messiah.

These appearances were based on the futuristic role of the Son through whom Alahim would be realized and understood which you see as ETERNAL SON OF GOD which is wrong.

Speaking about Hagar. Ishmael was Abraham’s son. Alahim had promised Abraham that his seed would be like the stars of heaven (which represent children of promise) and sand on the sea shore (which represent children of flesh). With this context now read these verses.

Ga 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Hope you see the reason why Abraham’s seed Ishmael was preserved because there has to be a measuring line which differentiates between the children of flesh and children by promise? and the cross of Yahushah is the measuring line.
More elaboration to my response: Galatians 3:19-20 KJV
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. [20] Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but Alahim is one.

The mediator is not of one but Alahim is one : The law served 2 purposes
1) school master to lead sinner to Messiah.


Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

2) judgement to those who didn't see a need for a Savior

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

The mediator mediates mercy to sinners who see the need for the Mediator to save them and mediates the wrath of Alahim to those who don't see the need for the Mediator. That's why it says Mediator is not of one but Alahim is One through whom both mercy flows to sinners in need of the Savior/Mediator Messiah and wrath to those who don't see the need for him.

The Mediator is the measuring line who executes mercy or wrath of Alahim. 2 covenants Hagar in bondage with her children and Jerusalem from above with her children. Both seed of Abraham and the mediator Messiah executes mercy to those born from above and wrath to children of flesh. All this is mentioned in book of Galatians where theme is law vs grace. Outcome of those under the law and those under grace and Messiah mediates both.   






 

Angels complete in Messiah

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!  

 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of Alahim: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Lucifer desired to rule as Alahim in the church though Messiah was still a mystery to him or any angels till the cross. 

1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Yahuah of glory.

Though the Bible doesn’t directly tell us when angels were created but they were created  when Alahim created the heavens Gen 1:1.Only the description of what was created on earth is given and not of heaven where angels are but Alahim's word says Alahim gathers all things in heaven and on earth to himself in Messiah. Col 1:15 says he is the firstborn over all creation.

Notice the fullness of time/s

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Messiah, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 

Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, Alahim sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Messiah in the fullness of time (the cross) gathers in one all things which are in heaven and on earth in him.

1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of Alahim; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

  

Why was there a need to gather the angels in heaven in Messiah? Are they not perfect? 

Perfection only comes through Messiah. He only is the perfect one who as the Son was OBEDIENT in all things to Alahim the Father. If angels were perfect they would not fall as some of them fell which we call Satan and demons.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Their habitation is imperfect without BEING IN CHRIST. 

2Pe 2:4 For if Alahim spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

What was the temptation made to Eve? 

Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:5 For Alahim doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.6 ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Paul says when a bishop is ordained; he should not be a novice lest he be lifted up with pride and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 

1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Alahim’s word tells us what this condemnation of the devil was.  Daniel was not present when Lucifer fell (Eze 28:3) but Alahim says that his loftiness was that no secret can be hidden from him and his pride that he is wiser than Daniel (to be as a Alahim instead of learning from Daniel (church) who reveals the manifold wisdom of Alahim). This was the will of Alahim for angels that they learn from Church and that’s why Word of Alahim says ‘Men did eat angels food’ (Psalms 78:5).

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Compare with Re 19:12  His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

 

Re 2:18 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of Alahim, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Ac 7:30 ¶ And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Yahuah in a flame of fire in a bush.

The Angel of the Yahuah in a flame of fire who appeared to Moses in the bush represents Yahusha who is the head of all principality and angelic beings. His eyes a flame of fire: revealing who Alahim is. 

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

 

The language in Eze 28 is hyperbole (an over statement which cannot be taken literally but figuratively)

Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Yahuah GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a Alahim, I sit in the seat of Alahim, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not Alahim, though thou set thine heart as the heart of Alahim:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

Lucifer’s heart was lifted up thinking he is wise whereas only Messiah is the WISDOM of GOD. He is the SECRET PLACE OF THE MOST HIGH/Hidden wisdom

Ps 91:1 ¶ He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

Ps 119:114 ¶ Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.

That’s why the elect angels desire to look unto and learn from the church the manifold wisdom of Alahim because they understand Alahim’s will in this for them. They find their completeness in Messiah who is the image of the invisible Alahim.

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of Alahim

The angels who realized their incompleteness were the elect angels (though they had no sin in them)  whereas Lucifer thought he was complete in wisdom. The angels saw their completeness in Messiah (figuratively) who was invisible (hidden/mystery) and learnt the manifold wisdom of Alahim through the church  when prophecy was unfolded.

If they were perfect there was no need for them to learn from the church the manifold wisdom of Alahim, they would have it inherently when they were created. The state of man was the same. Adam and Eve though not yet sinned were still incomplete without Messiah ( both were naked but not ashamed)

1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was a symbol of WISDOM which is outside of Alahim.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with Alahim. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.20 And again, The Yahuah knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Eve and Adam fell in the same condemnation of the devil by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil desiring to be as Alahim. The hidden wisdom (Messiah the tree of life) was a mystery which Alahim ordained before the world unto our glory.

1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of Alahim in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which Alahim ordained before the world unto our glory:

The angels who left their first estate/habitation (Jude 1:6) were the ones who thought they were complete without Messiah (Messiah was a mystery). They did not see their need to be in Messiah.

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

We can learn from the principle which Paul speaks about the need for a woman to cover her head.

1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

The elect angels learn from the woman (church who is under the covering of her husband Messiah) 

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Messiah is Alahim.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Messiah and the church.

Peter says the angels greater in power do not accuse sinful men before Alahim who despise the government of Messiah.

2Pe 2:10 ¶ But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Yahuah.

In conclusion Messiah is the head of both man as well as principalities and powers

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Messiah is Alahim.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Elect man and Elect angels are subjected to him but prideful man and stiff neck spirits (Satan and demons) will be subjected to him when they will bow their knee to him.

Php 2:10 That at the name of Yahusha every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Who are the 144000 in book of Revelation by Larry

The book of Revelation was written to whom? It was written to the Messiahians of the first century? What did the 144,000 mean to the first century Messiahians? We only look over their shoulders to see what it meant to them and then we can see what it means to us - just like all the books in the Bible. None were written directly to us.

The correct listing of the 12 tribes of Israel from the book of Chronicles...
1 Chron. 2:1-2 (KJV)

These are the sons of Israel;
Reuben,
Simeon,
Levi,
Judah,
Issachar,
Zebulun,
Dan,
Joseph,
Benjamin,
Naphtali,
Gad,
Asher.

The symbolic listing of the tribes (144,000) in REVELATION.

JUDAH – Who came from the tribe of Judah? Who was the firstborn of the New Covenant? The firstborn was always listed first - and in the O.T. listing the firstborn is always Reuben. But in this symbolic listing Judah is first - WHY!! Because the firstborn of this company of people is Yahusha. He is at the head of this group of people and the name Judah means “praise.”
Reuben - who sees the son
Gad - a band; a troop
Asher – happiness
Naphtali - that struggles or fights
Manasseh - forgetfulness
Simeon - that hears or obeys
Levi - associated with him
Issachar - reward; recompense
Zebulun - dwelling; habitation
Joseph - increase
Benjamin - son of the right hand
(Benoni) - son of my sorrow, or pain

So the meaning of the 144,000 is contained in the meaning of the names and that of the Firstborn. Why did Alahim use space in the Bible to describe the birth of these 12 boys in the first place?

The first question that has to be answered is, why is John's list a botched up mess? Can't he remember the proper listing of the tribes of Israel. No one has given a good and logical reason for this that I have heard. The reason that it is "Botched" up is because he is drawing symbols out of the Old Testament and he does this all through the book of Revelation.

So the "symbolic" picture of the 144,000 is a company of the people of Alahim for all time who at their head is the firstborn Son seated at Alahim’s right hand. A company of people who are happy and full of praise. An army who fights and obeys the one who has forgotten all of their sins; and they will increase and receive a reward and dwell with him forever. This was good news in particular to someone facing starved lions in the arenas of Rome.

As Rachel lie dying of childbirth with Benjamin – she named him “Benoni” that means “son of my suffering.” Jacob said no - he will be called “Benjamin” – son of my right hand. What a beautiful picture of Messiah we have been given. He is our Benoni - Benjamin.
Reference:

Genesis 35:17-18 (NASB)
And it came about when she was in severe labor that the midwife said to her, "Do not fear, for now you have another son." 18 And it came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

So what about the two tribes that were left out? They simple did not fit the message of the author...
Ephraim – fruitful
Dan - judgment
Alahim is not judging this company – they have escaped his judgment and wrath. You also need to take into account the fact that the 144,000 is mentioned in several places in Revelation. Are these all the same group or are they different? Lets look for a moment.

Rev. 7:4 (NASB)
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Rev. 14:1 (NASB)
And I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

Rev. 14:3 (NASB)
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.
After the the 12 tribes were listed, John looked and saw the 12 tribes that were just described and here is what he saw.

Rev. 7:9 (NASB)
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

Looks to me like its all the same group that we described initially, but instead of being “Sealed” they had the name of the Son and the Father on their foreheads - Same difference. In 14:3 they were purchased from the earth – the persecuted and martyred Saints of Alahim. Same group as the others all associated by the number 144,000. It relates first to the people to whom it was written in appx 87AD, but after that - to all Saints who have been tested on the Earth including us today. The redeemed company of the Yahuah were the only ones who could learn the new song because it was a song learned from the trials and tribulations of life on Earth. Does this make sense to you?

Numbers in the Book of Revelation are “Symbols” and not arithmetic. 144,000 is 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10. These are numbers which symbolize the unknown number of believers in this group. Revelation had to be simple for the people to understand in their day because a lot of the Messiahians then were slaves, illiterate, gentiles.

So why do I think this is the correct interpretation of the 144,000? Several reasons. First of all this interpretation is simple, and It also meant something to the Messiahians of the First century. It means something to all Messiahians of all ages throughout history from out of its original context - including us today, and will be a blessing to those who are yet to be born - should the lord delay his coming even longer. It doesn’t change with time or with current events; and it doesn’t just apply to a few select people somewhere out in the distant, obscure future.

Unfortunately today we seem to seek complication and direct relevance to the 21st century. We have to learn to seek out the simple message of John to the first century Messiahians before we know what it means to us..